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dionysus

Hemingway

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Douglas Adams counts as classic, especially in the fantasy/sci fi genre. They're seriously good books, Mostly Harmless isn't quite as good though. Eminently quotable nonetheless.

Hemmingway requires work, but I think it's worth it, I really do. And this is coming from a woman. A lot of literature has a history of misogyny, but one has to learn to read past that. I have to admit to finding Nietzsche full of style but totally lacking in substance. Flashes of genius to be sure, but swathes of nonsense.

On the note of Sylvia Plath I have a strong desire to ask that people read Ted Hughes as well, and are fair to him as a poet. Too many altercations with teenage Plath fans I guess.

On another note, hi!

eleri

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I'm sorry for sounding like such a prick going on about metalica, though it's quite strange for them and regina spektor to have cross over fans. Also, though with fear of sounding like I'm just name dropping (which one is vulnerable to being an old pretentious book club adolescent idiot), I would advice reading Tom wolfe's "bonfire of the vanities" or "electiric kool aid acid test". I'm only saying this because I think he was freinds with kesey.

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Also point taken about jack keroauk, being responsible for the beat atitude, esp as ginsberg acknowledges it as such. but I think ginsberg and burroughs allowed their personality to be inculcated into the beatnik character much more than someone like keroauk did who was more of an observer. I'm not sure how you can be so critical of burroughs in terms of lacking energy, personaly I think the beat generation thing, especialy ginsberg, is very dated, except for burroughs. Obviously I don't know what it was like at the time but I think, something like "naked lunch" translates itself much better than "howl" which is quite naieve, and I think the creativity within that novel (though perhaps with junky etc not so) and the twisted short stories. It's obviously difficult, and perhaps pointless to try to justify something which is, in the end completly subjective. But oh well

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I had to throw in my two cents about specifically hemingway, and some other philosophical nonsense.

Hemingway, despite what is popularly believed about him, was not a "woman hater". He is in reality more frustrated with the position that society puts women into, and the way that they have to act inside that box. For example, if anyone has ever read the short story "Hills Like White Elephants" the woman in the story is definitely a complex, beautiful character made to go through a painful, emotionally scaring experience just so her lover/husband will accept her again. Besides this there are many strong female characters in many Hemingway novels.

I can't say the same for Fitzgerald, it may have been different back in the day when writing about being disenchanted by a hard life of luxury, but personally I'm tired of reading about rich white people problems. And you can definitely not say that Hemingway spent his life writing about rich people.

(ps, this is also why I'm boycotting the movie "The Covenant" now besides being rich, good looking, and having the entire government fighting for them, they get super powers too. I can't really think of anything else that they need)

Someone in an earlier message mentioned post-modern "bulls*(t". I feel like this kind of attitude comes out a general hatred by the powers that be of any sort of gray philosophical area, which is what postmodernism is. The rejection of traditional values of right and wrong, and the realization that the meanings of words are "floating". I suggest reading Natoli, Barthes, or maybe Foucault.

Pretty much what I'm trying to say here is that there is no way to determine one way or the other whether a particular piece of art or media is valuable or beautiful. Preferences will never be concrete fact, and it is futile to spend your time hating some piece of art, when there is so many things out there that remain unknown, unseen and unloved.

I'm not trying to sound preachy, I'm just offering some advice from someone who spent too much time yelling at the moon.

if there are any egregious errors, I apologize I've been in class all day, and I'm not used to typing on a laptop.

Not trying to sound preachy, I

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Hi All,

Be nice... What I find most interesting about dionysus comments is his/her sorry at the end. You are so contradictive- you are not sorry so why say it! I personally like Hemmingway and Fitzgerald! They are beautiful storytellers. You are a pretentious jerk in my opinion- sorry NOT! I think you might be a lot happier if you lost the stick up your butt and dropped the chip off your shoulder- get off the box- i doubt anyone is amused or impressed...

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