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Raugust

An up-to-date Regina fansite?

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I have a few small things to say:

I'm glad to see the fansite up and all the thoughts and ideas that are being put into it. Seems like it's going to be great.

I'd be happy to contribute to the website occasionally (news, lyrics, timeline) if any help is needed.

Just a little, mostly unrelated complaint: I don't like the new fabricated songtitles i.e. "Stop Right Now" and "Defintion of a Crazy Person". I've always known these songs as "the clocks were asleep" and "I cut off my hair". Since when were these new titles the accepted ones? Regina never confirmed the titles to these songs (among others) anyway.

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Just a little, mostly unrelated complaint: I don't like the new fabricated songtitles i.e. "Stop Right Now" and "Defintion of a Crazy Person". I've always known these songs as "the clocks were asleep" and "I cut off my hair". Since when were these new titles the accepted ones? Regina never confirmed the titles to these songs (among others) anyway.

Thanks a ton for the feedback! While working on the lyrics pages, I never simply took information from reginaspektor.net; rather, I used it as one source among many in re-interpreting the lyrics for Regina's many songs. That process is still an ongoing one, and anyone else is free to contribute. In the process, however, I also added a number of songs that weren't listed, and renamed a few songs that were. Specifically, naming differences between my list and reginaspektor.net's are:

2.99¢ Blues = 2.99 Cent Blues (official title)

Hero of the Story = Hero (official title)

Silly Eye-Color Generalizations = Silly Eye Color Generalizations (couldn't find any reason for the dash, no official usage of it)

Twenty Years of Snow = 20 Years of Snow (official title)

"the clocks were asleep" = Stop Right Now (seems like a much more likely and plausible title--Regina usually names her songs after a common phrase in them, and the phrase "stop right now" is repeated many times in the song, whereas "the clocks were asleep" is only ever mentioned once)

"i cut off my hair" = Definition of a Crazy Person (seems like a much more likely and plausible title, for the same reason as above--the song has little to do with hair, and that phrase is only used once in the song, whereas "Definition of a Crazy Person" is repeated many times, and is arguably the phrase the song revolves around; I've also seen the song called this before on other lyrics sites)

"in another town" = Another Town (official title)

Until we get an official confirmation or some other reason to believe that the title is certainly one or the other, we should go with whichever provisional title seems most likely to be the correct one, which is usually whichever phrase is repeated most often in the song, or is most central to the narrative. (Though there are obviously exceptions, it's true as a general rule.) Even reginaspektor.net follows that as a general rule:

1. it lists "Human of the Year" rather than "Hello? Hello?" or "Callng a Karl Projektorinski"

2. it lists "The Devil Come to Bethlehem" rather than "Joseph and Mary"

3. it lists "The Floor Heard Everything" rather than "Father... Yes..."

4. it lists "Open" rather than "Down the Road and Up the Hill"

5. it lists "Woolen Gloves" rather than "Come Downstairs"

6. it lists "Dust to Dust" rather than "Say Goodbye"

7. it lists "Be Like a Cloud" rather than "Who Said I Was Original?"

With all that in mind, it seems likely that the only reason "the clocks were asleep" was named that was because a more plausible title wasn't thought of at the time, so srg just went with the first line of the song. Now that a more plausible title ("Stop Right Now") has been come up with, there's no reason to stick to that one, since there's no official confirmation for one or the other. The exact same situation applies to "I cut off my hair", for which there is now a much more likely (and much better!) title, "Definition of a Crazy Person".

Of course, the real reason I made these changes now was to stir up a little debate about which title to go with. I've provided the argument above for making such a change in which name we consider the "standard", accepted one for those songs; however, if most people disagree with this reasoning, and prefer the older names, then I'll gladly change the names back in all of my song listings. Ultimately what names we assign to songs without official titles should be based on community consensus and agreement, not on any one person's mandates, since only Regina and people directly affiliated with her have that authority. The reason I've kept the new titles thus far is because they seemed like very reasonable changes to me, and because I've gotten positive feedback on them (one user on iheartregina complimented me on the change from "The Clocks Were Asleep" to "Stop Right Now", and I know "Definition of a Crazy Person" was already in use before now). But if, after considering and weighing the options, most people decide that they prefer the original names (either because they consider the proposed titles no more plausible than the originals, or because they don't consider the long-term benefit of opting for a more likely and memorable song title to outweigh the short-term confusion such a change would cause), then we should stick to the originals.

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Unless she confirms something I don't think it's reasonable to create new titles for songs already known and about with other titles.

Yes, you have an excellent point, but I feel like the year/years of general acceptance outweigh your points.

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Unless she confirms something I don't think it's reasonable to create new titles for songs already known and about with other titles.

What if someone had originally named "Human of the Year" as "The Hallelujah Song", people had gone along with it for a few years, and then someone had proposed naming it "Human of the Year" but couldn't because "The Hallelujah Song" was the already-established title? (Even though Regina uses "hallelujah" in many of her other songs, like "Baby Jesus" and her cover of "Hallelujah".) Obviously, that's a somewhat more extreme example, but it makes it clear that we shouldn't use a title solely because it's what we've used in the past. We should be willing to make changes when there's good reason to, even without official confirmation from Regina.

quote:
Yes, you have an excellent point, but I feel like the year/years of general acceptance outweigh your points.

Consider the long-term issues, however. What if Regina never gives us an official title for those songs? (Which seems quite possible, since she hasn't performed "Definition of a Crazy Person/I Cut Off My Hair" or "Stop Right Now/The Clocks Were Asleep" in years.) Then, 10 years down the line, we'll have wished we'd gone with the more plausible and realistic titles very much, rather than sticking with the originals simply because we'd been using them for a couple of years already. It will become more and more difficult to rename them in the future, as Regina's fanbase becomes larger and more ingrained and as the copies of those songs spread more and more (which I imagine will be greatly facilitated by reginapolis.com). It would therefore be more reasonable for us to go with the most plausible and useful (i.e., gives us an idea of the song as a whole; "I cut off my hair" is a horrrribly undescriptive title, as bad as if we misnamed "Chemo Limo" as "I Had a Dream") title, by considering not only "the years of general acceptance" in the past, but also the potential consequences for the much, much longer span of the future.

The point I'm trying to make here isn't "We should change these songs' titles at all costs". My point, rather, is "We shouldn't automatically continue to use a title just because it's been used in the past", if there's strong reason not to. And my point is that we should all discuss which titles are better (more plausible, more suitable, more memorable, etc.) and base the title we choose on community consensus, not on the whims of history. The community could very well end up agreeing with your points and voting to keep the titles as they were (or they could decide to keep one of the titles and change the other, for all we know!), but we should give them a chance to think it over and decide on what to provisionally name the songs, rather than forcing them to accept a certain arbitrary title forever (or until Regina gives it a name).

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Oy. Again, sometimes the already-accepted name is not the best one. People are fallible, they make mistakes, and the best way to account for that is to reconsider from time to time what the "accepted" name should be, rather than just assuming that the first name is ideal.

But fine, if noone other than me considers any factor important in the unofficial naming of songs than "whatever the first guy who named them decided to go with", there's no point in having a poll or discussion on it. I'll revert "Stop Right Now" to "The Clocks Were Asleep", and "Definition of a Crazy Person" to "I Cut Off My Hair". Sorry for the trouble.

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I understand your point, but we are hardly the only fans, and a widespread attempt to change the names isn't going to go over well. Using the first line for unnamed songs also seems a bit more polite, as opposed to guessing at what Regina might have it named as. It's a pretty comfortable naming system that doesn't intrude on her art or intentions.

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I understand your point, but we are hardly the only fans,

That's exactly why I proposed that, rather than relying on the dictates of one or a few people, we should set up a large poll to discern the opinion of fans in general, and make our decision accordingly. After all, they're the ones who will be listening to and seeking out the song in one name or the other, so they should get to decide what name to go with, not just one person or another.

quote:
Using the first line for unnamed songs also seems a bit more polite, as opposed to guessing at what Regina might have it named as. It's a pretty comfortable naming system that doesn't intrude on her art or intentions.

It's equally impolite to guess at the title of a song based on its first line, as opposed to guessing at it based on its most commonly repeated phrase. If we're concerned with the impoliteness of giving unofficial names to unnamed songs (which doesn't seem all that impolite to me.. it's not like we're being presumptuous, we're just giving it a temporary title until we get the official one), then we should just name songs based on a numeric system: "untitled 105", "untitled 106", etc. Otherwise we're being hypocrites.

More importantly, you seem to have missed the entire justification of my proposed title-change: the reason I proposed changing the title is because pretty much every other untitled song has been named based on the song's common, unifying phrase, not based on the first line of the song!

But your proposed system is an interesting idea. Let's consider its implications. If you believe that we should name songs based on the first line, rather than based on a common phrase in the song which we're "guessing" is its title, then we need to make the following song name-changes:

- "Be Like a Cloud" should be "Who Said I Was Original?"

- "Dust to Dust" should be "Say Goodbye"

- "Human of the Year" should be "Hello? Hello?"

- "Love, You're a Whore" should be "It Was a Bright, Sweet, and Hot Summer Day"

- "Open" should be "Down the Road and Up the Hill"

- "Rockland County" should be "Condescending Down the Stairs"

- "The Floor Heard Everything" should be "Father... Yes..."

- "The Devil Come to Bethlehem" should be "Joseph and Mary"

- "Woolen Gloves" should be "Come Downstairs"

Obviously, I disagree with the above course, which you seem to think would be preferable to only renaming one or two songs. I feel it would be much, much simpler and more effective to simply rename those one or two songs to make them consistent with all the others, rather than renaming everything else to make it consistent with those one or two songs ("I Cut Off My Hair" and "The Clocks Were Asleep"). And we both agree that consistency is better than inconsistency, even if we disagree on how valuable it is.

My only motivation was to make these two songs consistent with the system we've used for every other song. We have never used the "just name it based on the first line" system in the past or present for other songs, so why use it for "Stop Right Now"? Either you don't care about consistency as much as avoiding the potential confusion of renaming songs (as some of the others implied), or you do care about song-naming consistency and we'll have to rename either the two isolates (as I proposed) or the numerous other songs that have much more well-established and sensible names (as you seem to have proposed).

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quote:
Originally posted by Raugust:

Fran will have to answer that one, but I don't think that Fran's already started on anything, since we're still mostly in the brainstorming stage. Since Fran expressed interest in the graphic design, not in the layout per se, I'm sure you won't be stepping on anyone's toes in designing the code and layout and integral images and the like; and if you two end up making completely different layouts, it's no big deal anyway, since we can always switch designs at some point or just use both.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you! I haven't learnt html yet, so I would be no good at designing the layout, but as Raugust correctly noted, I have no issues with photoshop and graphic design. Give me dimensions and I will create!

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