PerksOfAWallflower

language nerds !!!!

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note to self: don't drink water while reading sweetness's posts.

sweetness in my lungs.. Hahahahaha! I was drinking water when I read your post and the 'neufneufneuf' thing made me spit water out my nose! Your post is hilarious, I've tried to say 'neufneufneuf' but I can't stop laughing so it's really hard. xD

*tries to breathe*

Okay.. The way I pronounce 'vache' depends on the context. If I say it in a sentence ('la vache est dans le champs' for example), the 'e' is kinda mute but if I say 'la vache!' (a french expression which means.. 'wow, that's incredible!'), I pronounce it 'vach-uh' (vach-ö?). But it's a dialectal thing.

quote:
But you know, I've only been studying French but I find myself understanding small bits of Spanish and Italian. Especially in writing.

Yes, that's true. I also understand small bits of Portuguese.

Bah. I would love to hear you say 'neufneufneuf'. xD

*tries to breathe*

rainna!

Yes, the man who pronounces your name seems very serious. Smiler

Do you think French is a difficult language? I mean.. our nouns have genders and articles, our third person pronouns are not gender neutral and we conjugate the verb depending on who we're talking about! Wow.

By the way, I was wrong. It's not our chickens but our roosters who (which?) say 'cocorico'. Smiler

And 'cocorico' is similar to 'kukkokiekuu' and 'kuckeliku'!

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quote:
There are things that are difficult and very annoying, but all in all I think Swedish is quite pleasant to learn.

Ah nice! I've had a lot of people tell me Swedish was a pain in the ass to learn. I guess you can learn the basics pretty fast but to learn it so that you speak it without mistakes must take a long time. We have some stuff that make absolutely no sense when you think about them. The deal with en/ett would be so annoying if I hadn't just known it. It's like your, un/une, kaoir, except there are no rules whatsoever on which noun gets which article. In French you can at least guess a noun ending with -e is feminine. And almost all our verbs are irregular (I'm sure that's not true, but so many) and the way we conjugate into plural is a nightmare. For example:

en kudde (a pillow) - flera kuddar (many pillows)

en pojke (a boy) - flera pojkar (many boys)

en flicka (a girl) - flera flickor

en katt (a cat) - flera katter

ett träd (a tree) - flera träd

ett ansikte ( a face) - flera ansikten

I can't find a pattern here!! I don't know... And if you say it wrong it's very noticable. From the top of my head I have -ar, -er, -or, -n and -. And well man I don't know why :P I think Riikka would explain it better than me.

And I guess the pronounciation of Swedish is the hardest. We have kind of a "quadratic sound box" if that makes sense. (Have I mentioned this before in this thread..? Feels like it) Our sounds are in the corners and the edges of the quadrant, while Danish for example have a circle in the middle of the quadrant where all their sounds lie. The Swedish vowel sounds are the extremes. The Danish vowel sounds don't differ from eachother as much as ours. Ehm. My point was it's hard to get the Swedish sounds right if it's extremes that you don't use in your language. It's easier to go from extremes to the middle.

quote:
Bah. I would love to hear you say 'neufneufneuf'. xD

I would love for you to hear it too :P I'm getting pretty good at it!! Inhaling does not help. The trick is to press the air out before the ff-sound. Haha! I've never thought about the word "nöff" before. Now it makes perfect sense to me Wink

What more sounds have we got??

Cat - mjau

Sheep - bäää (sounds like the vowel sound in the French "(le) main")

Cow - muuu

Train - tuff tuff (actually the same word as "tough" in Swedish)

I'm guessing these are kinda the same in different languages and not as funny as the pig one...

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quote:
Do you think French is a difficult language? I mean.. our nouns have genders and articles, our third person pronouns are not gender neutral and we conjugate the verb depending on who we're talking about! Wow.

Yeah, French was hard! But it not just because the language itself, I think. French was the second foreign language I started studying, after English. English is easy, because you hear and see it everywhere, all the time, while French is really something you don't come across if you don't try. The grammar is very different from Finnish and I think French is the language I've had to work most with in order to learn at least something. There's stuff like... subjunctive. WHY??? (I mean really, I can deal with adjectives and nouns and pronouns and even most of the verb stuff, but subjunctive is just bullying. Your tricky language bullying the poor person trying to learn it!)

quote:
I can't find a pattern here!! I don't know... And if you say it wrong it's very noticable. From the top of my head I have -ar, -er, -or, -n and -. And well man I don't know why :P I think Riikka would explain it better than me.

It's so weird how different the stuff we know about our own language is from the stuff we know about foreign languages! The logic (it's not a perfect logic, but there is a logic) behind conjugating the nouns is probably the first grammar thing I learned when I started taking Swedish. Whereas this soundbox thing is something I've never even heard about! But I guess that's just how it works. I know about vowel harmony in Finnish, but I have no idea about the logic according to which we conjugate the verbs... Big Grin

But yeah, Swedish nouns! I really wish I could draw a chart... Okay. There are five groups, so five types of conjugation. The first form is singular indefinite, second is singular definite, third plural indefinite and fourth plural definite.

1. en -nouns that end with -a

en flicka / flickan / flickor / flickorna

2. en -nouns that end with -e

en pojke / pojken / pojkar / pojkarna

3. en -nouns that end with a consonant + most words that are borrowed from other languages

en katt / katten / katter / katterna

4. ett -nouns that end with a vowel

ett äpple / äpplet / äpplen / äpplena

(= an apple)

5. ett -nouns that end with a consonant

ett hus / huset / hus / husen

(= a house)

And that, my friends, is how the Swedes do it! Big Grin

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quote:
Originally posted by rainna:

Yeah, French was hard! But it not just because the language itself, I think. French was the second foreign language I started studying, after English. English is easy, because you hear and see it everywhere, all the time, while French is really something you don't come across if you don't try. The grammar is very different from Finnish and I think French is the language I've had to work most with in order to learn at least something. There's stuff like... subjunctive. WHY??? (I mean really, I can deal with adjectives and nouns and pronouns and even most of the verb stuff, but subjunctive is just bullying. Your tricky language bullying the poor person trying to learn it!)

Hey, subjunctive is so useful!

I wouldn't be able to talk about imaginary facts, give opinions or incertitudes if it didn't exist! Smiler

I think English is very hard to me because.. The way they use verbs is too simple. Haha. Sometimes it makes no sense to me. Wink

Sweetness: I'm getting pretty good at it too! Maybe one day I will be able to talk with pigs. ewww.

And you're right, those sounds are kinda the same in French. Well.. To be honest our trains do 'tchou tchou' and our cats say 'miaou' (but my cat is different because she says 'meeeeeaaaaaahhhhh' *sigh*)

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First of all: I'm new to this conversation - keep that in mind! (In fact, I'm knew to this forum.)

quote:
Originally posted by kaoir:

Hey, subjunctive is so useful!

I wouldn't be able to talk about imaginary facts, give opinions or incertitudes if it didn't exist! Smiler

I wonder how English speakers do that then... No, really: "Le subjonctif" is something, I really don't get. And I forget to use it every time. I just use "l'indicatif" and that's wrong... but why? You don't need something like the subjunctive in German either! But to be honest: There are so many other things in the German language, that French doesn't have (like the four cases - don't get me started on that...).

quote:
Originally posted by kaoir:

I think English is very hard to me because.. The way they use verbs is too simple. Haha. Sometimes it makes no sense to me. Wink

Really? That's what I love about English. In marked contrast to French, where you have to know so many exceptions in conjugation. In fact, eventhe exceptions have exceptions!

The only kind of stupid thing about English is that you never know how to pronounce stuff. Every word is different.

I mean look at "ea":

There's "heart", there's "head", there's "bear", there's "earth", there's "eat"...

In French you just don't pronounce like the last five letters of the word and you're good to go.

And another thing is that you never use commas in English. You use them all the time in German! And I get really confused when there's a sentence with like six clauses but all of them are mixed together, because there are no commas to distinguish them!

Funny, how all those languages we're talking about are so different from one another - even though they come from the same group (Indoeuropean languages, that is). Imagine the differences between these languages and East Asian ones for example...

I think that's enough for now.

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Snowball13: I don't speak German but the four cases seem to be a real brain-teaser. I prefer subjunctive. Wink

I think English is hard because it's really different from French, my brain is not built for it. But I love learning new things so I can't complain about it!

And you're right about the pronunciation (*sigh*) and the commas. When you speak English you can't breathe. Smiler

quote:
Originally posted by rainna:

You guys just add all those letters at end of the word and then you don't even bother to say them!

quote:
Originally posted by sweetness in my lungs:

kaoir! Did you actually not know that you don't pronounce all your letters? I find that quite funny Smiler

quote:
Originally posted by Snowball13:

In French you just don't pronounce like the last five letters of the word and you're good to go.

Okay. It's a conspiracy. I get it. Big Grin

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I have been an English speaker only, except for mangling French in HS and college.. I can understand it if it is spoken VERY slowly...

BTW I believe Regina has stated in an interview that she is primarily English speaking now and thinks in English...

R

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I love learning languages! I know Finnish and English, and I've studied Swedish for a year and I love it. I tried to get French classes in school but there were hardly any people that wanted it as well so they didn't bother to teach it. It really made me sad, I just want to learn as many languages as I can, and take it all in! I couldn't even get German though I was willing to study that if French wasn't possible.. and turned out neither of them was. :(

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I am kind of a language nerd.. I was an English major for awhile.. I bungled French for a few years in HS and college, and still understand much of it... I grew up in a household where Yiddish was spoken at times, which is largely derived from German, so I know a few words there..

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I love learning languages as well! My mom speaks English, Russian, Spanish and French! I wish I knew that many...I took Spanish for a little bit in middle school and high school but it was never my favorite. I love Russian! Russian speakers have been around me for my whole life which is probably one of the reasons why I was so drawn to Regina in the first place. I learned some sign language a few years ago. I thought about being a language translator at one point but then I decided I like learning just for fun. I just like picking up little language parts along the way I guess :D

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