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Eliana

um.. is regina anti vegan?

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Hey, look I didn't think your reactions would be so... bland.

I'm outta here because I thought that with a thoughtful artist I might find some thoughtful people but I'm just not findin' it. I'm finding sycophants.

Don't you all realise that the kind of behaviour you all play out your just keeping all the worlds problems plowing on. Think for yourselves people. Become your own heroes and stop putting your responsibilities to be active in the world on other peoples shoulders.

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quote:
Originally posted by urban nomad:

On one hand my post was about our needs to categorize and specifically why we do do this. Why if someone eats a completely vegetarian diet 85 percent of the time and of the the other fifteen percent adds a small portion of meat then a carnivore?

This kind of ridiculous attachment to specific ideologies, with there subtle and not so subtle rules of engagement, are taking us away from the real truths we need to consider and dividing us all in the process. It is intellectual appartide. What we eat doesn't matter as regards our intellectual though the morality of our eating habits seems to be on of the greatest divisions in society that stops us all understanding one another and making silly judgements before we can even properly address the problems that effect us all.

Now do you understand me?

sorry, no.

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Nomad,

The problem I see is that you categorized yourself as a vegetarian and then went on to post against the need for categorization. If you think that this attachment is ridiculous, as do I, then there is no need to categorize yourself either way. It makes me wonder why you would state you were a vegetarian at all. I would look closely at your intentions there.

I think you would find a lot more freedom if you'd just drop that label altogether. Also don't worry about what everybody else here is saying, and don't leave. Smiler

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Dear Nomad:

I think your first post was very interesting and I would not rash into conclusions. My answer would be that the questions we ask are ideological and the answers we get are psychological Smiler

I can see you are a big non-conformist and you do not like categorization or rather fanatism over definitions. You remind me of my husband. My husband has an ideological stand that we humans can survive pretty well (and remain healthy!) without eating animals and polluting the environment. However, to promote his ideology he does not chose radical paths! He believes that the change in people's awareness and eating habits should be gradual and pleasant - under no circumstance imposed. He thinks that everybody should start with whatever they are comfortable with: some people cannot afford buying organic products, some people cannot stop eating meat 100% (they can just start eatting a little bit less than they usually do), some people have religious dietary laws and other cultural customs that are hard to change over night.

My husband does not cook meat at home, he tries not not buy meat when he goes out (although sometimes he just needs some, after all it is very hard to change 100%). However, if he is invited to a dinner party and served meat - he would eat it, because he doesn't want to offend the host and cause any inconvinience. Some people tend to make scandals: "Didn't you know that I am a vegentarian!" - I think that is exactly what Nomad is arguing against. People, do you have any idea how hard it is to entertain in a big city with so many different cultures? Some of your Jewish friends eat only cosher, some of your Muslim friends do not drink, some of your Budhist friends do not eat meat, some of your Anglo-Saxson friends need a nice glass of scotch before dinner, and you always have some vegetarian and vegan friends as well - how are yous supposed to give a party, provide foods (and drinks?) and keep everybody happy? I agree that we should avoid rigid categorization and just change the world by our everyday choices. After all we do live in a society of consumers and if more people buy free range chicken eggs and less meat - the industry will eventually change.

I think that what Nomad was trying to say is that first of all we need TOLERANCE, then we can focus on making our world better.

As for the psychological aspect of it: why do we care if Regina is vegan or hates vegans? Please do not confuse it with simple gossip (did Brad cheat on Jen?). We care because vegetarianism or being vegan is an ideological stand. If she gives her opinion on our president, why shouldn't we want to know her stand on eating animals? The psychological factor surely kicks in: because for some of us she is a role model; and some of us think she is really smart and gives us a lot to think about in her songs and interviews. This is precisely the way to make people think about certain questions and bring about the awareness. Who knows, sometimes things we hear from 'celebs' do make an impact on us and make us do something about it.

Sorry for such a long post, everybody!

Best, Marry Ann Smiler

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Roll Eyes

I actually stood up for you at first but now I am confused by your hostility.

quote:
Originally posted by urban nomad:

I'm outta here because I thought that with a thoughtful artist I might find some thoughtful people but I'm just not findin' it. I'm finding sycophants.

You've been here a few day, made 12 posts in several threads. Yet because some people didn't agree with one of your posts, in one of the threads you posted in, you resort to threatening people with leaving as well as a blatant catgorization of the members of this forum?

There are many thoughtful people around here. You haven't been here long enough to make that kind of general judgment. You are being prejudice.

If you'd like to see the good in this board, you should be more thoughtful yourself.

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hello all.

quote:
My husband has an ideological stand that we humans can survive pretty well (and remain healthy!) without eating animals and polluting the environment. However, to promote his ideology he does not chose radical paths! He believes that the change in people's awareness and eating habits should be gradual and pleasant - under no circumstance imposed

i think that marry ann's husband is right, simply because society _needs_ to preserve itself, and thus any kind of change that could result dramatic or unattended is to be avoided because the society itself would reject it unconditionally: i think that's because of the basic instinct of *preservation*. that's why one has to be _really_ clever when spreading a new idea capable of changing society's mind, able to break the _cohesion_ of society itself. and this applies to all aspects of all contexts of life.

this has become a very nice thread! thank you for your attention (and forgive my bad english!).

btw: i'm strictly vegetarian, and "on the road" to be vegan - just need a bit more time.

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i am sorry i got so defensive i felt personally attacked. i realize i overreacted, granted i felt like i had no back up against a tyrant. i find nomads pompous speach to be condescending and i hate that. there are many intelligent people here and nothing to prove.

the fact of the matter is, i dont find his posts so enlightening. i think he spots a unself-actualized person and preys on them.

quote:
Originally posted by urban nomad:

I'm outta here because I thought that with a thoughtful artist I might find some thoughtful people but I'm just not findin' it. I'm finding sycophants.

Don't you all realise that the kind of behaviour you all play out your just keeping all the worlds problems plowing on. Think for yourselves people. Become your own heroes and stop putting your responsibilities to be active in the world on other peoples shoulders.

i think its fine to use good people as motivators to better yourself. to me it seems like nomad manipulates words and assumes everyone else on the forum is unintelligent and the worst specimens of human kind. there are so many smart, and unselfish people on this forum and im sorry nomad wont stick around long enought to meet them (george, piling&twisting, Cyn just to name a few). everyone on here is great and he doesnt have the right to critisize us.

nomad is basically preaching to the converted because i think eveyone here is pretty darn great, and intelligent. hypocracy lives, as proven by nomad. he talks about how not to listen to others opinion and then tests you by forcefeeding his. c'est ridicule!!!!!!!

Nomad- you use extremely offensive metaphors "intellectual appartied" -in no way shape or form can a simple catagorization to explain your eating habits compare to a horrible terrible idea to be completely racist and intolerant to a race that clearly out-populates your own.

'our eating habits seems to be on of the greatest divisions in society that stops us all understanding one another'. who ever said that vegetarians cant relate or tolerate meat eaters. most of the people i love are meat eaters and my eating habits in no way hinder me from understanding and accepting their morals.

"the kind of behaviour you all play out your just keeping all the worlds problems plowing on." its way to harsh to say that because we dont agree with you, we enhance problems on a global scale.

chainofflowers- dont worry about your english, you sound great, and dont be thrown by this thread, most people here dont judge.

i realize i wasnt going to respond and did, but im trying to be more level headed about this, and express why i was so offended by nomads posts, because as i looked back on my post i see that i might seem like a little kid who talks back and then has no answer to why they dont like something. here is my reasoning, i dont jut dislike his posts just because he dissed me. i really feel that he is being too bold in these posts, without sufficient evidence.

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Dear Perks:

No need to be appologetic. I thought that Nomad's first post was interesting, I could sense some aninousity in the second, but with his last he has crossed the line. I understand why you had such a strong reaction. He does have a rather condescending manner

quote:
to me it seems like nomad manipulates words and assumes everyone else on the forum is unintelligent
I AGREE!

and Chainofflowers:

Don't be shy. Many people here are not English speakers and we all make mistakes - It is the communication and the good will that counts!, as well as good manners and friendly atmosphere that I like most about this forum.

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Hey I'm sorry everybody. I really didn't take enough time to properly consider my replies and must admit that the subsequent shooting from the hip was entirely over the top and for that I humbly appologise.

But then again playing devils advocate has brought alot of considered writing to the fore and I suppose I'm rather glad that that has happened.

Marry Ann, I loved your post and didn't mind how long it was at all and would actually be well pleased if all posts were that long.

I think that the work I've been doing in the past has left me with some issues I have to deal with. I ended up building a recording studio for a friends brother over a whole year and he's quite famous here and alot of other pop stars ended up coming by to work with him and I got to know them all quite well. The thing was that they are all quite normal people, if somewhat more sensitive than most, and I ended up in alot of situations where the pop stars were put in quite untenable positions which were embarrasing for everybody concerned.

That said I'd have to say that I most probably came here with a sub-conscious grudge against hero worship, I can see that now, and so I started hitting out at people who seemed only to be idolizing and protecting icons; a purely sub-conscious reaction on my part and I shouldn't be battling my own demons without realising what they actually are. Theese returns from yourselves have got me thinking and I won't run away, I'll live with the shell I've created for myself, and I'll try to be more thoughtful in future.

But even in real life I'm know by friends as someone who challenges the way things stand but you gotta believe me when I say I have got a whole bunch of people who enjoy my company. So if you give me a chance and realise I may stray into a bit of baiting once in a while it's so we can go a bit deeper and get to deeper truths.

Thanks y'all for bein' here.

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@ urband Nomad:

I think I understand what you meant by being a vegetarian who eats meat: you support the ideology of vegetarians concerning the well-being of domesticated animals, but in someway, you personally need meat.

Vegetarian story: The sister of one of my best friends has been vegetarian for half her life, up untill now, she just got too skinny not eating meat (and she was a very slim girl to start with), so she has to eat meat occassionally just to keep healthy.

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