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Eliana

um.. is regina anti vegan?

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Perks and Nomad:

I am happy you worked it out Smiler

Back to hero worship, we all have our role models - it's unavoidable: our parents, our friends, neighbours, teachers, trainers, characters in the books or movies, celebs. I find it better to stick to the ones that are dead or 100% fiction (like Julius Ceaser Wink - you have very little chance to see the other side of him and get disappointed.

However, apart from psychological issues, another question has been raised: Does the author matter? Do we care about Oscar Wild's personal promiscuity, or don't we?

Regina's case is easy. As far as her artistic work is concerned, she does not want us to think about her artistic intention. She has stated in many interviews that we should not ask her what she meant in this or other song. It seems that she would rather let us generate our own meaning and interpretation, which we all have been doing here for years (my favorite threads are in the spirit of: what does Samson mean?) However, Nomad, if you go to the first posts on this forum you'll see that Regina used to post here a lot. She is a kind of artist for whom a dialogue with the audience matters and who does not hold back on her opinions, neigther does she hide behind her music. We cannot ask her whether Um-merica is meant to make a statement agains carrying guns, but we can easily ask her what she thinks about the Virginia or the Columbine shootings.

Please post your thoughts about the author! Do you read biographies of writers/musicians/painters/actors you like, or is it their artistic work the only thing that counts?

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Hey Beechcraft, your mostly right. But I do like meat, I love it but I find it lowers me somewhat so I don't eat it as often as I could. Mostly I eat brown rice seeds and beans with lotsa garlic and chili. I completely disagree with the farming of animals to the extent that we do and think we'ed all be alot better off if land was allowed to revert back to what it was but that's completely ideological and doesn't make much sense considering how many people in the world need fed. I guess theres somewhere in the middle where we can treat the animals and the plants well, allow them some freedom before we cut them down, yet still have enough farming going on that is efficient. I think the main problem is that too many people just eat meat and not enough of the other high protein foods like beans which are far less burden on the planet.

I'm reading Alvin Toffler "The Third Wave" at the moment and I think his ideas about informed communities doing for them selves would be a good way to go. The crux of his thinking is that the first wave agricultural wave, supplanted then by the second wave industrial wave, was based on producers and consumers being the same and then the second wave industrial pradigm came along and split those two into different contexts and had to create the market for them to communicate. Therein lies the big divider between production and needs and the distortions are evident everywhere. With the third wave Mr Toffler thinks the market will break down and we will produce more of what we consume. Markets will shrink right down and more decision making will be localised. Read the book, it's great, deep though.

Thanks Perks, I'm sure your a swell guy.

Marry Ann, what do you mean by "Please post your thoughts about the author!" Does this mean my thoughts about you?

I do occasionally read biographies about musicians but it's more about the time period they occupied than about the people themselves. When I read biographies about people it's usually for their technical breakthroughs and the time they too occupied. I'm very interested in the sequence of events that leads to breakthroughs as opposed to someones personal contribution.

Case in point could be my relationship with David Bryne from talking heads. I love both his music and his blog but for me the words and thoughts in both don't matter so much as the distance between instances. That is to say that he could do a song about whales and fishing boats and then the next song or article is about an old man who likes heinz beans. I like the way his mind works as opposed to the details it creates.

With some of regina's work, I've only got the latest, I like the way she structures particular songs and plays through the changes. It's the vantage points and how they're chosen that interests me and what being looked at isn't so important. How you see it as opposed to what you're seeing.

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Oh no Nomad!

I did not ask your opion of me. I meant - The Author, The Artist, the one who creates Smiler as opposed to the fruit of his creation (the song, the novel, etc.) For example, do you care that Ezra Pound was a Nazi? - (as discussed in the "Pound of Flesh" thread).

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Another thing about meat: The thing with the way (most) meat is produced in this age, is that it is actually inefficient use of agricultural space and means: The effort going into producing a hamburger or steak could be used to feed a score of people in a third world country instead of just the one buying that hamburger or steak.

It's one of the asymetricallities in the world's extended society... We eat meat and the people in poor countries starve because of it.

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WOW. marry ann with the hard questions. um, it depends on what kinds of things the artist does, Ezra pound does bother me. everytime i read his work i think, how can one be so enlightened yet so shut out and intolerant. this sort of hypocracy makes for fake art i believe, and i dont like to read it.

but others like e.e. cummings, i read his poetry and think, this guy was a sex maniac,....i luv it, even though im and pretty much a prude, its natural and hey its a part of life...and its e.e. cummings for christ sake, he's awesome. "read the boys i mean are not refined"...youll get a taste of his vulagrity.

and i thinks its hyper critical to be repulsed by mainstream music in which the band members are drug addicts or alchies because thats pretty much the biz, and if they make good music its okay i suppose as long as their fans relaize their faults.

like hendrix.... who can deny the mans greatness, it wouldve been nice to have him longer, but he was what he was. People can be role models in some ways but not in others. and i think thats okay, you just build this image of conglomerated people to make your motivation. thats okay by me.

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Cool, Perks!

You are a very strong and well balanced person, who knows what good for you Smiler "The music is cool, but I will not immitate these band members and become drug addict" - i wish everybody had such great sense and wisdom Smiler Nomad should not worry about blind worship of celbs, anymore Wink You take the good parts and leave out the ones you do not like.

That was all about the morals of the artist and whether we are bothered by them or not.

How about knowing something about the artist's personal life or his/her ideology - would it influence your interpretation of the artistic creation?

Say, you knew that "Strawberry Fields" by Beatles was written under drug influence: could it still be interpreted as a cute harmless song or would it become a song about a trip?

Smiler

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My thinking on most creative, or any important, activity is that it comes from God, without getting into details, in the sense that we are only mediums. If we are open to something then it passes through us for everybody out there. The question then is how much distortion comes with the message when it passes through the messenger. To that I think it's important how we view the messenger. If we come with judgements as to how credible a message is then we will always have even those views distorted whereas if we hold to no judging bias then maybe it's possible to see the underlying sentiment.So off I go to brainyquote.com to find some innocence quotes that may tell the story better than I and hopefully they'll cut and paste.

"Once you start asking questions, innocence is gone."

Mary Astor

"Innocence is always unsuspicious."

Joseph Joubert

"Individualism is rather like innocence; there must be something unconscious about it."

Louis Kronenberger

"Where choice begins, Paradise ends, innocence ends, for what is Paradise but the absence of any need to choose this action?"

Arthur Miller

That Arthur Miller quote is a doozy don't you think?

But back to the subject I think it comes down to having an open mind. If one is curious and unjudging them the cover the book comes in is never a detriment to having a quick peek inside.

But then we have to weigh that against the dangers that acting within, or under, such a veil of innocence might bring.

Forgive me, before I go further, if I play with words, I don't want to define any height above or below, but merely have aspirations to roll in the mud with them as easily as I might fly through clouds.

So I'll leave here now because comedy's coming on the TV and I wanna be there for it. Cheers chaps and chapettes.

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