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MusicLover_2007

2008 Election

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My history professor was tlking about the cold war today in class. He made the comment that alot of America's problems stem from the fact that we haven't figured out what we want to be when we grow up. Considering that America a very young country compared to countries like England and France, I think this is an appropriate way to put it. I guess you could say we're in that toddler stage in which we want everything our way and if we don't get we throw a tantrum. He went on to say that America has two choices: be like Rome and create an empire, or be like Switzerland and just stay out of everyone's affairs. I think at the current moment we are on the road to being like Rome, we like to tell others how it's done and then make them do it. But if your're going to be like Rome, be Rome. You can't go punch someone in the face and then go home like nothing happened, which is what we like to do, go fight the war, win, then come home and make babies. When a Roman went off to war, he wasn't expected to come back, he either died in battle or conquered it and made it Roman. But on the opposite end, who's ever heard of the starving Swiss? The Swiss have a well trained army but don't get tangled up in world political affairs; they'll hold your money while you go fight but won't get into it themselves. And I think that's perfectly o.k. No one has any reason to bother the Swiss. And if we can hold our tongues then I think america could pull it off. But Americans can't hold their tongues, it just the way we are. But America wants to be both Rome and Switzerland at the same time, and that's something I don't think can feasibly work for much longer.

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well my boi G-Wash did warn us to stay isolationist..sounds like you have healthy discussion in your history class.

i was just thinking.. hydrogen is both used for alternative energy and for nuclear weapons/ H-bombs. both require an exorbitant amount of energy, but the key is that we use this energy for the best outcome. the same great achievement in peace could be our ultimate destruction. AHHH!

that connection seemed a lot cooler in my thoughts.

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Those who live in glass houses.......

The sun never sets on the British Empire...right?

My point is no single system is perfect. We can pick each other apart until we're blue.

I've always found this board to be an exception to the rule. I've been on plenty of full time moderated boards where all hell breaks loose on a regular basis.

Here we have a mosh of people from all over the world getting along and engaging each other in stimulating conversations and thoughts. We help and support each other. We don't need to nit pick and generalize unnecessarily.

Many of you feel like family to me. Obviously this includes people outside the US. I don't look at a location when I talk to any of you and prejudge.

Bottom line: reg has brought us all here together. Let's respekt her by continuing to be tolerant. Give each other the benefit of the doubt. Throw these prejudiced assumptions and classifications out the window.

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quote:
Originally posted by graph theory:

i don't know if this is really correlated, but this whole [dare i say ignorant] mindset is really in America's history more so than any other country. like perks said, getting out of this cycle will not happen overnight.

like from manifest destiny (thinking it's our God given right to take land from Native Americans), to slavery, to the immigration laws at the turn of the 20th century, and all of the US's 'policing' of communist countries during the Cold War, and now in the middle east...America has not had the best relationship with other parts of the world. I really don't think the US is isolationist anymore, that ended when we entered WWI. ..though I've never seen LOST, so I don't know.

I think it is different from Australia because of these things. Aside from a similar isolation geographically and similar unfair treatment to the native peoples by the europeans, Australia has had a much more.. friendly history. Especially after they got rid of the White Australia policy in the 70s. [given, i am not an expert in australian history] And it is probably also because of the superpower status of the US, whereas the rest of the world is kind of forced to deal with americanization and globalization.

I know i'm rambling.. but one of my friends is teaching english for the peace corps in kyrgyztan. The kids there have to learn english to even have a chance at a better life and maybe move to america. And they (innocently and naïvely) asked her if americans are learning kyrgyz and want to go to kyrgyztan like they want to go to america. it kind put things in perspective for me..as an american..and our relationship to the world.

as for the 2008 US election, musiclover2007, I think you already know that the majority of young people support Obama, for reasons you can read in the newspaper or online.

as for the 2008 election in Italy, berlusconi won....... sigh.

i completely back you up on this. yes i guess in my post i focused more on geographic isolation rather than the actual non-physical more psychological seperation from the rest of the world, for exctly the reasons you stated. nicely put.

and OMG! i have a few italian friends and they are literally in fear of their government! they way they explained it to me is that italy is pretty much fascist again. that is completely mind boggling.

haha! and cuddly knife you brought up reagans' "star wars" or whatever it was called thing. that was so idiotic.

well, lord of the flies is now mandatory reading in ohio at least for sophomores, and im pretty sure its read all over the country. i have never seen Lost but you seem to rave about it cuddly, so it must be good.

man. i wish reg was here. i'd like to see what she'd say about this.

personally, i am extremely proud to be american, and im sure that if i had grown up somewhere different that i would be proud to be that. but as far as i know, the government has served me and my family pretty darn well. i am lucky to have the opportunities and rights that i have. sure our country hasn't made all the right decisions but in my opinion they have done pretty well for the people. Smiler its funny because never more in my life have i been more patriotic then now (not right this moment but this year). this will be my first time voting in a great election with a woman and black candidate, history is being made. All my life i didn't know how i felt about my country, but as i grow up and have started to have to defend my country (mostly fom the french) i know exactly how i feel. proud to live here, and we may not be the best or the brightest but i can make a difference in that. and thats exactly what i plan to do.

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quote:
Originally posted by leaves:

My history professor was tlking about the cold war today in class. He made the comment that alot of America's problems stem from the fact that we haven't figured out what we want to be when we grow up. Considering that America a very young country compared to countries like England and France, I think this is an appropriate way to put it. I guess you could say we're in that toddler stage in which we want everything our way and if we don't get we throw a tantrum. He went on to say that America has two choices: be like Rome and create an empire, or be like Switzerland and just stay out of everyone's affairs. I think at the current moment we are on the road to being like Rome, we like to tell others how it's done and then make them do it. But if your're going to be like Rome, be Rome. You can't go punch someone in the face and then go home like nothing happened, which is what we like to do, go fight the war, win, then come home and make babies. When a Roman went off to war, he wasn't expected to come back, he either died in battle or conquered it and made it Roman. But on the opposite end, who's ever heard of the starving Swiss? The Swiss have a well trained army but don't get tangled up in world political affairs; they'll hold your money while you go fight but won't get into it themselves. And I think that's perfectly o.k. No one has any reason to bother the Swiss. And if we can hold our tongues then I think america could pull it off. But Americans can't hold their tongues, it just the way we are. But America wants to be both Rome and Switzerland at the same time, and that's something I don't think can feasibly work for much longer.

Ok, I can only say one thing about your professor. He's a total dumbass who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Talking about America like it's a child. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Also comparing the Swiss to America. Liberal profs do these apples vs oranges comparison all day long, and it's really pissing me off! Total lack of REAL education!

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quote:

haha! and cuddly knife you brought up reagans' "star wars" or whatever it was called thing. that was so idiotic.

Wow, that's ignorance on display. It was actually called SDI(strategic defense initiative). Only liberals called it "star wars". If you actually were educated, you'd know that the Soviet Central Committee heard about the SDI and cried uncle. They basically threw in the towel after that and instituted perestroika. Which ironically lead to the release of Soviet Jews in the late 1980s. Which means we got Regina. But I wouldn't expect ignorant Americans to know anything about it.

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quote:
Originally posted by PerksOfAWallflower:

haha! and cuddly knife you brought up reagans' "star wars" or whatever it was called thing. that was so idiotic.

Just one recent example of why SDI is rather helpful

In my opinion, the fact that one man proposed such an ambitious plan in 1983, and today, despite the doubts of many, it has become even this successful is anything but idiotic.

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quote:
Originally posted by MusicLover_2007:

quote:

haha! and cuddly knife you brought up reagans' "star wars" or whatever it was called thing. that was so idiotic.

Wow, that's ignorance on display. It was actually called SDI(strategic defense initiative). Only liberals called it "star wars". If you actually were educated, you'd know that the Soviet Central Committee heard about the SDI and cried uncle. They basically threw in the towel after that and instituted perestroika. Which ironically lead to the release of Soviet Jews in the late 1980s. Which means we got Regina. But I wouldn't expect ignorant Americans to know anything about it.

Case in point......the name calling isn't necessary. I knew sooner or later something would happen in this thread to give it a nasty tone. Be tolerant and make your point without the name calling. You'd be amazed at what you might accomplish.

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quote:
Originally posted by MusicLover_2007:

quote:

haha! and cuddly knife you brought up reagans' "star wars" or whatever it was called thing. that was so idiotic.

Wow, that's ignorance on display. It was actually called SDI(strategic defense initiative). Only liberals called it "star wars". If you actually were educated, you'd know that the Soviet Central Committee heard about the SDI and cried uncle. They basically threw in the towel after that and instituted perestroika. Which ironically lead to the release of Soviet Jews in the late 1980s. Which means we got Regina. But I wouldn't expect ignorant Americans to know anything about it.

i think it was more the earlier cruise missile, variant tomahawk missile that had more if an affect, economics were the more key factor because the arms race was costing oceans of money

The Soviet union just had the good sense to call a holt to it, not least because of the impossible cost of bringing down ground hugging missiles

star wars was aptly named as it was a completely pie in the sky fanciful idea and came later (do you really think france and britain would allow huge radar stations in their countries which offered them no protection?)

much the same as the much exhalted patriot missile in the liberation of kuwait which contrary to the hype at the time failed to come even close to hitting a scud missile and in fact caused as much damage on the ground as the scud itself, shooting down missiles with missiles is probably impossible (think of hitting an arrow with another arrow)

and that it seems to me to big part of americas economic problems (aside from the fact that america simply doesnt have a manufacturing base, printing paper money doesnt count)

they are still playing the arms race, costing trillions, was it ever reported in america that the hugely expensive stealth plane may be kinda radar invisible ( but certainly not to british radar Wink ) but was easily shot down over yugoslavia using aging soviet SAM missiles linked to two 486 (pre. win 95) computers tracking the massive turbulence the crazy device leaves behind.

Who exactly is this arms race against?

childish?

well yes im afraid america is in a lot of ways, in britain and europe we long ago realised everyone carrying a gun was not a good idea, even japan with many centuries of tradition and even clothing decided the same with swords

ooh stop stamping your foot yes i know about the right to bear arms, in britain it is against the law to dive a taxi without a bale of hay on board to feed the horse! And there are hundreds of similar laws that over time become forgotten and ignored

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