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UnicyclePoet

Profanity/Vulgarity

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quote:
Originally posted by Sgtcampsalot:

I'd say anyone who "encourages" someone to curse is off their rocker.

Edit: I'm rambling. Don't take any of this post as law.

^^lol

i suppose i went a little overboard with the "encouraging people to curse". though i do think there's pressure out there. More of an everybody-does-it kind of thing.

but keeping with the liberals... i don't understand why cursing is so common among such peacable people. i understand that conservatives see it as a "grown-ups only" topic, but i thought a "thing" (and be nice if i'm wrong!) for liberals was kind of questioning everything. So how has cursing flown under the radar of so many? i mean, it's not really constricting your freedom of speech any more than losing gun policies is constricting our ability to protect ourselves.

"As long as nothing is done to harm others [using such in an aggressive mannger directed at others], and you're not forcing your ideals upon others, I feel there is no logical reason why cursing should be shunned."

the same can be said for guns. Both were created with the purpose of doing harm. So why shouldn't we keep them for casual use around the house?

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woah woah woah!

are we REALLY comparing cussing to gun control? think about that for ONE second.

did you think about it?

good.

i assume that by now, you have answered your own question.

on a side note, how did we get on this thing where liberals are promoting cursing? it has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics. conservatives cuss just as much as liberals, and in my experience (being one of the only liberals in redneck-town, new york) a lot of the time, they cuss more! usually when talking about liberals and gun control.

just saying. this is nowhere near a political issue. it is a personal preference.

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Everyone does it because they are meant to emphasize emotions in speech, and because of such, they can be "enjoyable" to use emphatically. As a self-proclaimed cunning linguist, I don't fall back on cursing ["Profanity is the language of the undereducated" or something, I think is the phrase... pretentious, but has validity] but I heartily recognize the value of words in speech and human interaction, and there are very valid times in which a "curse" word can greatly compliment speech.

/abrupt end

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quote:
Originally posted by good > perfect:

woah woah woah!

are we REALLY comparing cussing to gun control? think about that for ONE second.

did you think about it?

good.

i assume that by now, you have answered your own question.

on a side note, how did we get on this thing where liberals are promoting cursing? it has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics. conservatives cuss just as much as liberals, and in my experience (being one of the only liberals in redneck-town, new york) a lot of the time, they cuss more! usually when talking about liberals and gun control.

just saying. this is nowhere near a political issue. it is a personal preference.

yeah that's definitely true.

but for the record: This whole fucking thread is fucking ridiculous and it's all shitty and like an asshole and... bitch!

words are words people. There's a story about Max Perkins editing one of Hemingway's books (off the top of my head it may have been Death in the Afternoon) and all the people were at Scribner's were freaking out because he used some "questionable" words. The story is that Max wrote these words down on his notepad that is titled "Things to do today" - so it may have looked like this:

Things to do today

Shit

Piss

Fuck

Now this story probably isn't true, but it's very funny. But it's also not funny. Art, if you'll allow, is not meant to be fucked with. Hemingway put those words in there for a reason. They wanted him to change those words because they might be a bit off-putting to people. I think in original publication they may have been left in but blanked out ("s---"), but they may have been removed altogether. But either way, that's not how he wanted it. That's no good. Censorship is the worst thing ever, especially when it's done for such a stupid reason as some (lily-livered) people might be offended at your word choice. Suck it up.

So basically, Hemingway put the words there for a reason. So, I'm sure, does Regina. If you've got a problem with curse words in the songs, don't listen to those songs. But know that she uses the words for a reason, and that THEY'RE JUST WORDS. This has been said, but by themselves they mean squadoosh. It's just a random assortment of letters.

"Shit" is just a jumbled up version of "This."

Geez.

EDIT: Oh, and the whole gun control thing. There are plenty of statistics I could go look up (but I'm going to bed now) about how guns don't really save any lives or prevent any crimes, and are almost universally used in crimes of some sort.

But guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people. If you feel the need to protect your self with a concealed weapon at all times you might just be really freakin' paranoid or maybe you just would really like an excuse to use it.

Guns are stupid. Words are freedom.

And the 2nd amendment says we should have a "well-regulated militia." I'm pretty sure they didn't want everybody traipsing around with AK-47s shooting shit.

Geez again.

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Good point.

I'm reminded of a saying: "Art is: working on something until you like it, then leaving it that way." So that not only applies to censorship, but also SELF-censorship, based on outside pressure.

I'm now reminded of the "Gimp" scene from Pulp Fiction. Many people then, and today, say it's a gratuitous scene that has no reason or purpose. But, the fact of the matter is, Tarantino, the CREATOR of the movie, felt that it was necessary, so therefore, it's fucking necessary. There is no validity in saying that scene shouldn't be in the movie. That's how the movie is, so that's how the movie is. And this applies to art across the board.

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First off, let's calm it down a couple notches there, Swimming Pool Noises.. this is more of a hypothetical discussion than a kill-everone-who-curses rally. Thanks.

Anyway, what i'm getting from your post can be summed up with "words are freedom." Totally valid. i'm not fighting you on that. BUT there's a ifference between expressing yourself and expressing yourself with curse words. (see my point about cursing not defining who you are.) i understand the inclination to curse, but your freedom of speech is not crippled by a lack of a few random words. If someone is sensitive to those words, can you not think of a trillion competent synonyms? Just because you don't mind it doesn't mean others who /do/ should have to be subjected to it.

Let's drop the gun analogy (not really meant to be taken literally, but i think it holds some validity), and drop the liberal standpoint. We'll look at this as a personal choice, and consider another comparison: cursing and smoking (minus health risks).

Yes, it's a personal choice to smoke. Yes, there are others who dislike being around it. If you're a smoker, and lots of other people around are smoking, and one person requests that you put them out, because they dislike the smoke, do you? Or do you tell them to "suck it up" because you don't give a crap about other peoples' preferrences and comfort? That's what this comes down to-whether you personally see something wrong with cursing or not, someone else expressing to you that it makes them uncomfortable means nothing to you. Let's say none of the other people in the room stop smoking to accomodate this person. Is that your excuse for being so inconsiderate? Do you think that would be a valid excuse?

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There's a scene in In Bruges where Colin Farrell is smoking at a restaurant and the guy at the table next to him is getting pissed because the smoke is coming over to his table. So the guy yells at him and Colin reminds him that he's sitting in the (EXPLETIVE EXPLETIVE) smoking section. If you don't want the smoke, don't sit in the section. If you don't want the curse, don't listen to the song.

I was talking with a very smart man and a great writer earlier this year, and he said that a curse word can (in writing especially) either be the strongest word or really weak. If it's thrown in for the sake of being a hardass then it's not going to work and it shouldn't be in there. But if it's used they way it should be, there really aren't "a trillion competent synonyms." It HAS to be that word.

I look at this question from the position of writing mostly because that's really what I'd like to do I think. I don't curse very often when I write, but if I do it's for a reason. If I want to use that word because it's the one that works, I'm going to do it, and I don't particularly care what other people think of it. They don't have to read it.

I understand that some people are offended by these words. (I don't particularly understand why, but whatever.) But this: "your freedom of speech is not crippled by a lack of a few random words," I don't understand. Because I think it IS crippled. If you tell me I can't say these words (a few random words, by your own admission), then what's to stop you from adding more words to that list? That's how things happen - it goes slowly but then gets out of control. I honestly think this is that important. You can't have Freedom of Speech Except for a Few Words Which We Find Generally Objectionable. You can have Freedom of Speech or not.

And as for telling me to "drop the liberal standpoint," I think that just goes to prove my point. So I can't curse AND I can't be a liberal!? Fuck!

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you misunderstood almost everything i said! must be bad communication on my part.

"drop the liberal standpoint" meant, "i am dropping everything political from my arguement". it wasn't an order to you!

Abt the "don't sit in the smoking section", what if there's so much smoke in the designated area that it's leaking out. Then, no matter where the non-smoker sits, they are bombarded with the nasty stuff. This is what happens for people who prefer not to hear/see curse words. it was fine when they were largely kept out of mass print and never said on tv, or at least programming readily accessible to kids and/or people unwilling to hear them. Now, it's gone from adult movies and books to teens, to movies kids would watch to movie titles to TV show titles. Sensing a pattern? So don't think that avoiding a couple of songs is going to keep someone's ears away from foul language. There's literally no escaping it in our society. I've even heard that some popular preachers have been cursing from the pulpit!

But i'm not trying to make this about sensitive people specifically. We were originally discussing why people feel the need to curse. The people being offended were an afterthought.

I disagree that a) "no cursing"=no freedom of speech. That's a joke. Freedom of speech is the right to express yourself openly and honestly.

Now, if your vocabulary is so impaired that you need to curse just to get a point across,that's understandable.

But, living in America, it would take the same amount of effort to work 6 full time jobs as it would to keep yourself so ignorant of the english language. (awkward sentence. sorry.)

"If you tell me I can't say these words (a few random words, by your own admission),"

i was quoting you. if they're "random" words as far as you're concerned, then why is it essential to throw them around?

"then what's to stop you from adding more words to that list?"

The fact that the words on that list are foul and unneccesary, while any word not on that list is useful and productive.

"That's how things happen - it goes slowly but then gets out of control."

Okay, what the heck are you talking about? first of all, if anything's out of control, it's the support and usage of curses-not the addition of existing words to the "list". I don't think one has been added for, what? 100 years? lol calm down about that "gets out of control" bit.

"I honestly think this is that important."

eh... i doubt that our little conversation here will have much bearing elsewhere-the world's mind is made up that it's going to screw up our kids as thoroughly as possible. and cursing seems as good a vehicle as any in hardening people, dont'cha think? Wink

P.S.more about the "slowly getting out of control": i think we're on our way to shamelessly using every curse word in the book, thereby abolishing the term "curse word". People will speak these ugly words fluently. Maybe the F-bomb will be your grandchild's s first word. Then we can all say, "aww! she must have learned that from her educational cartoon!" okay. i'm kind of blabbering on now. but hopefully this post will come across better than the last one did!

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I don't really know how much I want to jump in here.

But... I think I see what both of you are saying. BLtWP, I see your point. And I understand that cursing may be unpleasant to the ears of some. But honestly? Words are just sounds. Sounds, that might be used a certain way, and be considered offensive, and might be used another way, and not be so offensive. It's very... abstract. Language. How it evolves, how it grows and changes into a sort of taboo.

On the one hand, I have very little respect for someone who drops an f-bomb in between every other word. Because these words have gravity, and there's a time and a place for them.

But on the other hand, a well placed curse word, because of this gravity it possesses, can have enormous effect on literature, or a song, or whatnot. There are times when a word that holds so much should be dropped, along with all that it carries.

edit: And if people use ugly words fluently, then why are they ugly? Words are words are words are words. Whichever way you may perceive them.

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