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MusicLover_2007

Death threat against South Park creators about depicting Allah

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i dislike you. are you a christian?

is god a him?

'do these vans get good gas mileage?'

kevin - home alone

'jesus saves, well he better save himself.'

jethro tull

'why do the faithful have such a need

to believe in something, and give it

the name they choose, haven chosen nothing.'

jethro tull

'he's not the kind you have to wind up

on sundays.'

jethro tull

'confuses me as to who and where and how,

as to how he gets his kicks.

he gets his kicks.'

jethro tull

'a leash is a rope with a noose on

both ends'

ayn rand

'he's the guaranteed eternal sanctuary man.'

genesis

'do as i say, don't do as i do.'

genesis

'they get so read in the head that

they're about to choke.'

regina spektor

'you're always lettin' us humans down.'

XTC

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want

He makes me down to lie

Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.

With bright knives He releaseth my soul.

He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.

He converteth me to lamb cutlets,

For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.

When cometh the day we lowly ones,

Through quiet reflection, and great dedication

Master the art of Judo,

Lo, we shall rise up,

And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.

by the way, which one's pink?

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If ever a post has belonged in the rants section...

i take it you take/share a lot of your theological/spirital standings from Jethro Tull.

All i have to say to your post is: "saved" means that humans are slaves to our passions and sins-we are slaves to our imperfections. God/Jesus is perfect, as in He dosen't sin, as in He doesn't do evil things (He created this world, so i'd say if anyone gets final word on what constitutes right or wrong, it's Him).

God wants all men to enter heaven, but we insist on sinning and soiling ourselves. A person who sins entering heaven is comparable to urine in the drinking water. not only is it a bad idea to mix them, but the existance of sin in God's presence is just impossible--He wouldn't be God anymore, because it's His very nature not to sin--through word, deed, thought, or acceptance. He loves you, but if you sin, you can't just walk into His presence. He brutally murdered His own son (literally a part of Himself) so that we wouldn't have to suffer that fate in hell if we didn't want to.

Point 2: We have little free will in our lives. We don't choose our families, intelligence, or appearances for ourselves, along with millions of other things. But if there's anything we are allowed to decide for ourselves, it's whether to enter heaven or hell. God leaves it up to you--He lets you live here and decide your own actions, and eventually your eternal fate. Let's say you were presented with the Gospel, and decided not to accept Christ. How messed up would it be for Him to drag you into His presence anyway? He wants you, but if you would rather have your sin and your idols, He won't bind you to Heaven.

'jesus saves, well he better save himself.'

jethro tull

From what, dear?

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quote:
It's actually written in their holy book that unbelievers should be killed. I can't remember if it's when they refuse to convert or what, but there are certainly religions that call for murder.

^^ I really don't think any book can compare to the Old Testament when it comes to violence and killing. Don't read the book of Leviticus if you don't wanna get traumatized.

As for my view on Christianity.......

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."-- Thomas Jefferson

"How has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams

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Brady: I'd be crazy not to acknowledge that people have used Christianity as an excuse for violence, but the bottom line is: blame the people. Not the religion.

The Bible condemns murder.

The Bible forbids us from trying to force the gospel on those who don't want to hear it.

As for attacking men, women, and children, the only times that was okay were when God had first done everything He could to reach those people, yet they rejected Him. They were sacrificing babies to their idols! it's not like they were peceful and innocent before big bad God decided to pick on them.

As for your quotes: Those horrible crimes would have been committed anyway, because the real reason they're committed is for power, and for the simple reason that the criminals can.

Don't blame Jesus when someone fires a machine gun in your face "in God's name". That's ridiculous, and completely backwards logic on the part of the murderer.

God will not ever command a nation to move against another nation, because of Jesus. He now has mercy on us, no matter what.

The violence you're referring to is the result of Western colonialism, not God. Anything but God.

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quote:
blame the people. Not the religion.

^^ I don't know about that. It is religion that gives them the idea to do the violence, and it gives them the courage to follow through with it, thinking that they will be awarded in the afterlife. *Cough Cough crusades* The National Liberation Front of Tripura, has been forcefully converting people to Christianity for a while and is classified as one of the worlds top ten most active terrorist groups. And you know very well what the last words of the those highjackers were in the 9/11 attacks. I think it would be crazy to say that Religion isn't the one to blame.

quote:
The Bible condemns murder.

^^ 1 Corinthians, 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy.

That is just one of the many violent verses in the bible supporting murder. That one is in the New Testament, it is in both of the testaments. I know that the bible also says that killing is wrong too. That is my point, both are in the bible, what we do now is pick and choose verses in the bible that agree with our modern sense of morality, which has evolved for secular reasons, and rub out the ones that don't agree with our modern moral sense.

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The Bible says, "Vengence is mine, sayith the Lord". The verse you quoted clearly says that God is the one who will handle men. Not God's people. We are to live as examples of what God wants. Then curious people would approach and ask why we behave the way we do, then we would share the gospel. Don't blame God because violent people have taken it upon themselves to attack others. It's not our call to attack, to murder, or to threaten.

The crusades were not justified by any scripture. I don't care your interpretation. Were scriptures bent to the will of man? Obviously. So understand that, just because these crazies claimed they were doing God's will, doesn't mean they were.

Why would God order His people to kill unsaved people? The entire point of Christians is to be there for anyone who is willing to be saved. Killing them before they have the chance to become saved defeats the point of Jesus' death. The crusaders were not doing God's will as it is expressed in the Bible. They were bending God's word to suit their own purposes. And God says that is one of the worst things you can do. His wrath is turned upon those people, and He is not with them.

There is no confusion whatsoever about how Christians are to treat non-Christians. Exactly as we are to treat fellow Christians, at the very worst: --with love, mercy, and we are to live in harmony with others. Period.

quote:
It is religion that gives them the idea to do the violence

No offense, but do you really think that the people who went out of their way to attack innocent people would have behaved differently without religion? They may as well have been athiests, agnostic, Jewish, or Muslim. The entire reason for their attacks was to broaden their empire. Don't kid yourself about them basing their action on the Bible. The Bible was used as a flimsy mask that they used to "justify" what they did.

Nobody picked up a Bible and pointed to a verse to say, "oh, look, turns out we're not supposed to let people live their lives. We're supposed to kill everyone else! C'mon. let's grab the torches and pitchforks. Because our god's all about looove...." They overlooked so many contradictions to what they did. It was an act of greed, disguised as an act of God.

The violence is the result of greedy people doing what people do best: hurting each other. They brought God into it, and i assure you, He's handled every one of them as they deserved for these attrocities. Because, at the end of the day, more souls were lost than was neccessary: people whose understanding of God was affected by their actions, as well as those killed without ever knowing the depth of His love.

Sorry this is so long. Red Face

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quote:
do you really think that the people who went out of their way to attack innocent people would have behaved differently without religion?

I think you misunderstood what I said. What I meant is that Christianity gave them the idea that they are doing God's work and that they will be awarded in the afterlife. I'm not saying that without Religion there would be no violence, just a lot less of it.

I really can't understand why you don't see that Religion is the cause. The AOG (Army of God) made it their business to set fire to abortion clinics. And one of the members, took a shotgun and killed Dr. John Britton and his bodyguard outside a clinic in 1994. He was sentenced to death. He smiled all the way to execution chamber saying, "I expect a great reward in heaven.....I look forward to glory."

I don't understand how you are saying all of these actions were some cover up for money and power.

I also don't understand Americans always ripping on the Quran and Islam all the time for being violent when Christianity and The Bible is probably worse. i.e. God drowning everyone in Genesis.

Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. Revelation 11:3-5

^^ ?????

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quote:
He

Not that I really feel like getting in the middle of this or anything, but why are you referring to God as a "He"?

I'm just throwing that out there...

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Why exactly did those people think they would be rewarded? Nothing in the Bible even implies that there is a reward for mass murder. Those people are delusional. They've created a false god in their minds: one who rewards violence, yet still they insist that they are doing the work of the god of the Bible. There is a distinction to be made between the God who gave us His word, and the imagined god who always justifies these individuals' actions, even when they defy His will and His orders.

The same goes for the abortion clinic attacks. There is nothing in the Bible to imply that setting fire to someone else's property is okay. So why would you blame God for these actions?

If i ran your kid down with a truck, and while he was in the hospital, i told him that attacking him was your idea, does it make it your fault that your kid was hurt? Violent people under the impression that they are doing God's will are wrong, because they are deviating from what God explicitly commands them to do, or not to do.

quote:
"I expect a great reward in heaven.....I look forward to glory."

This man was a member of a cult, nothing to do with the real God. Someone lied to him, and rather than checking it out and seeing for himself, he assumed that what he was told was true. He took rash action, and innocent people got hurt. Maybe that's why Jesus was so hard on false prophets: when the idea of God is abused, bad things happen.

About the deaths in Genesis/Old Testament:

The only one who has a right to kill is God. He has His reasons. And i want to make my point about these people again: they were murdering babies, sometimes forcibly removing them from the mother's womb. They then placed the fetus on the burning hot hands of a metal idol, and committed acts of sexual immorality before the idol while the screaming infant burned to death.

If ever there was a time for God to step in and wipe someone out, it was then! I defend the murders that took place because killing innocent people is the worst thing people can do. However, i don't defend the people who attack abortion clinics, because, again, it is God's place to move against them. Not ours. He will handle everything fairly in His own time.

About blaming christianity for the crusades: I have a direct quote from a French crusader:

quote:
Then the great slaughter had begun. They had fired in double-salvos! and it was a pleasure to see these sprays of bullets, that were so easy to aim, come down on them twice a minute, surely and methodically, on command... We saw some who were quite mad and stood up and seized with a dizzy desire to run... They zigzagged, running every which way in this race with death, holding their garments up around their waists in a comical way... and then we amused ourselves counting the dead, etc."

Does that sound like a person at all concered with what God wants? I think not. These are the people who claimed after the fact that they were simply "serving God".

Don't blame Christianity for the actions of maniacs. Rather, discern for yourself what is and is not the behavior of a true child of God.

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